1. What difference has the deep and wide program made to your youth ministry on the ground compared to any program you used before?

Going “deep and wide” is not a program. Taking kids “deep and wide” is our mission statement, purpose statement, core values, strategy, and our philosophy all in one simple vision for teenagers. It directs and determines our programs, the content we teach, the relationships
we build, and every other aspect of our ministry, but it is not a program.

2. What are the positive (and negative) you could share with me about it?

There’s really nothing negative about it. It follows Jesus’ commission to “go into all the world” (go wide) and “teach them to obey everything I have commanded” (grow deep). It’s also the great commandment to “love the Lord your God” (grow deep) and “love your neighbor as yourself” (go wide). Everything is wrapped up in those two inseparable aspects of Christianity: worship, fellowship, discipleship, evangelism, missions, everything.

If you want to read more about it, Greg Stier (of Dare 2 Share Ministries) wrote a thesis on it that goes into more detail.

3. One concern I have about the material is [your] use of the word “push” which could potentially have negative connotations in terms of “pushing” young people to make a commitment. Maybe this is a difference in our theologies but there have been several ministries…over the years (of which I was involved in one as a young person) that have “pushed” young people and for many this has had long term negative fallout. I agree that we ought to be hastily encouraging young people to have relationship with Jesus and to share it, but I am keen for that relationship to be long term. Do you have any thoughts?

I understand your hesitation with the word “push” and I agree with what you’re saying. Too many churches are very passive when it comes to encouraging teens in their faith. We think that if we talk with them once a week at church for an hour about it, then that’s sufficient to help them grow. But in comparison to everything else in their life — academics, athletics, band, family, relationships, whatever — they are definitely pushed. There are expectations and boundaries for each of those things that are much more rigorous than what we expect of teens spiritually. Mormons, for example, expect their kids to go to seminary for classes every day early in the morning before school and the Mormon drop-out rate is almost 0! We barely expect that they show up at youth group.

So, when I use the word “push” I mean we need to raise the standards and expectations of spiritual growth in kids lives. According to my theology, we are all naturally sinful and rebel against the things of God. Pursuing Him does not come natural for any of us. That’s why it requires some gentle, sometimes forceful, pushing. In my experience, never has a kid rebelled against that. In fact, they always rise to the challenge and start seeing Christianity as something more than just a wussy thing on Sunday mornings.

The kids who are spiritually apathetic need to be challenged the most. Jesus said, “teaching them to OBEY everything I have commanded.” Sometimes we have to challenge kids to just try what Jesus commands in an area of their life, and as they see that it really works, that this
is real and not just old Bible stuff, they start to become more interested. As they continue to obey and follow the Lord and see Him at work in their lives, then they move to becoming more excited about their faith and then passionate. That doesn’t mean teens (and even myself) don’t fluctuate spiritually, just that we are striving to obey the Lord in every area of our life.

Ultimately, you’ll have to be sensitive to how much you “push” a kid. It’s different for every teenager. Some need a lot of accountability, challenges, and follow-up. Some only need to be “pushed” once.

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Some of the things we talked about:

• Ideas for integrating theology into our teaching
• Some misconceptions about theology
• Why theology is important
• Evaluating who should teach and who shouldn’t
• And a lot more…

You can listen to the whole conversation below or grab it in iTunes.

Download this episode

Subscribe to LIVE YM Conversations in iTunes

Next week’s discussion

June 26: Next week’s topic and guest is still to be determined. Keep your eye on the LIVE YM Talk page and Twitter for details as they’re released this week. for details on how to join us.

Join our next LIVE Youth Ministry Conversation!

I concluded the night by doing a bit of vision casting for the fall and asked them to take a survey evaluating our high school ministry based on our deep and wide ministry strategy. I’ll make the survey available as a free download for this week’s Freebie Friday in case you’re interested, but here is a general summary of the results from my group.

[UPDATE: The survey and my lesson are now available to download.]

The evaluation results

• Kids who claimed to have experienced significant spiritual growth over the past year are also the same kids whose parents have regular spiritual conversations with them at home. These kids also said that the #1 influence on their spiritual growth is their parents. No huge surprise there, but it’s good to have it in writing.
• Students who claimed to have experienced little to no spiritual growth over the past school year said their parents have infrequent or no spiritual conversations with them and that their friends are the primary influence in their lives. I guess that’s okay as long as they have solid friends, but how mature can their peers possibly be?
• Our sr. high large-group gathering (game/worship followed by me teaching with interruptions for small group table discussions) was almost unanimously “a little bit” influential in their spiritual growth this year. Follow-up questions indicate that it is not due so much to my content as much as it is due to how it is delivered. The teens want to talk, discuss, and control the conversations themselves. They want to ask their own questions and have less structure. But they also want more depth and they want it to convict them, not just let them feel okay.
• Almost every teen comes to our large-group gathering because of friends, which tells me that if a couple key people stop coming, the meetings would drop to 0 attendance really fast.
• Conversely, the high school small groups were almost unanimously “pretty influential” to “it helped change my life” because they say that they feel safe, people are open with each other, and they talk about how God’s Word interacts with their daily life.
• Most of our kids are not really having spiritual conversations with unbelievers because they’re afraid and nervous. The “go wide” aspect of our strategy/vision/values/purpose/mission isn’t really taking place in kids’ individual lives.

My response

Based on this, I’m talking with the other pastors at my church about ditching sr. high large groups to create another small group that’s more of an open-forum discussion of life issues while I pray that somehow I’ll be able to join their conversation and take it deep into His Word without the prep I’m used to. However, there are a couple things I need to consider:

• Jesus’ had his small group, but he also saw value in teaching to the multitudes. He didn’t do it the way the religious system called for in his day by using a synagogue, rather he taught from hillsides and boats off-shore, essentially, where people were already gathered. Because of Jesus’ example, I’m not quite sure I’m ready to eliminate large-group teaching times completely, but something must change to make those times more effective in facilitating spiritual growth.
• Although our small groups are highly influential, do the large-group teaching times play a part in making those groups effective? Maybe the large-group time is what sets the biblical context and background for the small groups to have their effect.
• I’m not sure how teens defined “spiritual growth” when they filled out the evaluation. It’s possible that some kids equate spiritual growth to an emotional feeling at a camp or conference, in which case, their input about spiritual growth in the survey may or may not be helpful or accurate.
• An open-forum/deep theological format may be appealing to teens, but part of leadership is knowing what teens needs to hear and think through because they may not know what they really need. We often have to give kids what they need, not just want they want.

I think the next step is to have several of the high school teens over for dinner sometime to talk about these results and the future direction of our high school ministry in the fall. I’m also going to experiment with their “open forum/deep theology” discussion approach in our summer small groups here at my house. But that’s only the beginning. If we keep the large-group meeting time, the changes have to be deeper-rooted than re-microwaving the same large-group ministry or just trying to a different format. I’ll be sure to let you all know what comes from it.

These lists could be a lot longer, but here are a couple to get you started. I’d love for you guys to continue these lists in the comments below.

Current problems

1. Youth leaders are not internalizing the Word themselves before they teach it to others, and thus a disconnect between real life and faith is unintentionally communicated.

2. Parents are not being the spiritual role models their teenagers desperately need.

3. Youth ministries are too wrapped up in “doing” ministry rather than “being” ministry. Ministries find their identity in their function instead of seeking the Lord first for their identity and vision and then letting function flow from that.

4. Youth leader don’t pray enough. If we truly believed in the power of prayer, we’d spend more time in prayer than anything else.

Future challenges

1. Perhaps the biggest challenge for youth ministry in the next several years will be defining what community is, and then somehow enabling it to organically take place. The Internet and youth culture continue to change how people view relationships and how they interact. Since we are made in His image and one of the core essentials of that is relationships, we know that community will never go away, but the church’s ideology will either have to shift or be intentional about making a stance. Forming small groups and telling the participants to talk to each other for a couple years is not necessarily community.

2. Somewhat related is that our communication and teaching styles may need to change. Rather than lecturing from a stage or even discussing in a classroom small group, perhaps teaching will need to change to a community-driven experience that interacts with the real world.

What problems do we have? What future challenges do you see for youth ministry? Perhaps most importantly, how are you addressing these problems and challenges in your youth group?

1. It’s the foundation of everything else in scripture. In fact, we wouldn’t even have scripture in the first place if it wasn’t for the gospel. It’s the core, the hub, the center of everything we teach. Everything is dependent on the gospel. No matter what subject, issue, or passage you’re teaching, it all ties back to the gospel message. Don’t believe me? Watch Craig Groeschel of LifeChurch.tv do it with almost every message he preaches.

2. I’m not naive enough to think that all my youth group kids have made a decision to trust Christ. Actually, often the very opposite is often true. The church kids are the ones who are the most immune to the gospel. They mentally check out thinking, “Yeah, yeah, I know. I’ve heard this part before.” That’s why it’s important to always tie every lesson back to the gospel! I’ve found that some teens listen to my lesson just to try to figure out how I’m going to make the connection at the end. When I get there I explain the gospel in a way that’s relevant to the lesson we just discussed. In this way it doesn’t become redundant for them, but instead they get the gospel from a new angle every week.

3. The more my kids hear the Gospel, the more clear it is for them, the easier it is for them to share it with someone else, and the more confident they feel when doing so. When I do one-on-one discipleship with teen guys, one of the questions I always ask is, “If you had 30 seconds to share the gospel with someone right before they died, what would you say?” It’s surprising to me how many good, solid church kids have a perspective of soteriology that is totally confused. They often miss key elements such as sin, or the fact that Jesus was God. They know all the elements in their head, but they’ve never been asked to put all the pieces together. That’s why it’s so helpful for them to hear the gospel every week from me because it makes it more clear each time they hear it. Coincidentally, that helps them share it more clearly with others, which in turn boosts their confidence. Of course, that means I must first have a firm grasp on the gospel myself. Do you? Can you clearly answer my question?

4. Scripture expects that both me and my youth group kids share the gospel with others regularly. There are some things scripture expects from us whether we’re gifted in that area or not. For example, some people have the gift of serving, but every believer is still expected to serve others. Some people have the gift of giving, but every believer is expected to tithe. Some people have the gift of evangelism, but every believer is expected to share Christ with the lost people around them in one capacity or another. When we keep the gospel in front of our teens at youth group, it moves it to the forefront of their theological grid, and thus they are more apt to follow the Lord’s command in obedience to share Him with others.

Ultimately, it helps both the youth group teens and myself go deep and wide at the same time.

What kind of role does the gospel play in your youth ministry?

Deep & Wide is not another ministry philosophy. It’s not intended to be a formula for youth groups. It’s not the newest, latest, wave of ministry hype. It is simply an approach to ministry that movies spiritually apathetic teens to spiritually passionate teens. And it truly is simple. Just as the book Simple Church advocates, our modern approach to ministry is very cumbersome: we have purpose statements, vision statements, mission statements, core values, target audiences, various strategies, blah, blah, blah. It’s all supposed to fit together somehow, but yet the average Joe in our church has no idea what any of it means, and often we don’t either. Deep & Wide is simple: the vision is the mission, is the purpose, is the values, is the strategy and everything else rolled into one cohesive approach.

But most importantly, it’s straight from the Word of God. As my own ministry has discovered, it’s funny how God works when we actually do what His Word tells us to do in ministry and stop focusing on all the other fabricated stuff we add to it.

Lest you think scripture isn’t foundation enough, Willow Creek and REVEAL are finding that the typical approach to church ministry is not moving people toward a closer relationship with Christ. All their research and statistical data backs up Deep & Wide exactly.

I’m not going to explain to you what Deep & Wide is since you can read it yourself. However, I do have some reactions to it that Greg and I have already discussed extensively. He agrees with my critique and plans to make these changes as they go through an evaluation process and release a revised copy later this summer.

1. The role of the Holy Spirit, although mentioned, seems largely removed from the process. It’s mentioned a couple times, but I think He deserves more credibility in the process than the thesis mentions. Absolutely none of the Deep & Wide stuff happens without Him. That’s actually a problem I have with most ministry philosophies out there — they come across as almost being a methodical approach to coercing the divine into doing something.

2. Although I think the 30 core truths are good, basing it on a survey from leaders in various denominations strikes me as being a bit too human-ordained. Where does the issue of spiritual identity come in (being made in His image in Genesis, being “in Christ” in Eph, etc.)? It seems like a lot of good topics to cover from a systematic theology approach, but a student could possibly go through every issue listed and never come out knowing what it means to be a responsible, growing and effective believer except to have a list of stuff they’re supposed to “do,” rather than knowing who they “are.” What we “do” should flow from who we are, not the other way around. Identity in Christ comes first.

3. Deep & Wide has a sense of methodicalness to it, almost as if it promises that if I do A, B, and C, that means X, Y, and Z will happen, but we all know that spirituality a lot messier than that. The graph of spiritual growth over time is never a straight upward climb. The thesis needs to reflect the bumps and setbacks that will take place in real life and not unintentionally create unrealistic expectations.

4. I’m a little more careful with the book of Acts than the Deep & Wide thesis is when making a defense for what the church should be like today. Acts was an abnormal time period for the church, a period of transition characterized by elements that aren’t and can’t be a part of us today. However, the point that God wants to bring thousands into a relationship with Him is well taken and understood.

5. Teenagers are looking for adult sponsors who can answer “yes” to FOUR questions — the three questions the thesis mentions, plus “Are you reflecting Christ more accurately every day?” I’ve had youth leaders who loved Jesus, loved kids and were real, and I’ve had to kick them out leadership for gross immaturity issues. Youth leaders must be growing in Christ if they’re going to be the spiritual role model that I (and the Lord) expect.

Of course, people usually only respond to points of disagreement, which is essentially what I’m doing here, but I wholeheartedly support and agree with the big picture of Deep & Wide. In fact, it’s the only required text to read and discuss in my youth ministry leadership mentorship program.

If you’ve read the Deep & Wide Ministry Thesis, Greg and I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below, especially now as it goes through revisions.

What suggestions do you have for this fellow youth worker?

A Life In Student Ministry reader submitted this question:

“Sometimes when I’m praying about what to teach next to the youth I just come up blank. I have not been to seminary and maybe they teach you how know what to preach next. Sometimes messages just come, but sometimes I sit and fret about what is the next thing they need.”

I think this is a good question, worth thinking through and getting sufficient answers. I know this guy is not alone in this situation, so please leave your feedback here for him. Here’s my initial response:

1. Get your hands on a curriculum program and teach through it’s topics and issues. Just be careful not to teach straight from the curriculum. Personalize it and tailor it for your kids. If nothing else, this is a good way to get started with ideas.

2. Most of your topics and issues will come rather quickly after you’ve been more involved in kid’s lives. In an earlier comment on my blog, you said you’re only in your first week of full-time youth ministry. Give it some time and then you’ll start noticing issues that need to be addressed, such as foul language, purity, or gossip.

3. Let me encourage you not to only think about your curriculum topically, though. Teenagers need to have a solid foundation of theology, especially in Bibliology (how we got our Bible, why it’s trustworthy, etc.). It’s easy to give students the impression that the Bible should be limited to the self-help section of the bookstore. Scripture is so much deeper than that. God is so much bigger than that. If you teach practical theology, I believe the personal applications can hit a much wider range than just “don’t gossip” or “stay pure.” Besides, if you don’t challenge their theology, their future college professors will, except there will be almost no theology to challenge.

If you haven’t checked out YMExchange.com yet, register on their forums. It’s a pretty active community of youth workers. When I have questions, need input on something in my ministry or am looking for some ideas on something, I often post there. They’re a good group of people.

• Is it biblical for a church to pay its pastors?
• Is youth ministry even found anywhere in scripture?
• Are churches going completely the wrong direction with its approach to ministry?

What do you think?

Discuss: Which of these issues apply specifically to your youth ministry? What changes can you make to address them in 2007?

What do you see as some of the main issues youth ministry is struggling with today?

• Students are under a tremendous amount of stress and pressure.
• It is vital that we remind them constantly that Jesus needs to have first priority in their lives and that He holds their future in His hands. Students are so busy and God and church is not always the #1 priority.
• We need students to be global Christians.
• The idea of godly sexuality for all people needs to be put back on the agenda.
• Mental health.
• The whole question of “church” is becoming more and more of a struggle for youth ministry.
• Professional youth pastors and senior pastors looking for job security.
• This generation is facing identity issues, sexuality issues, authority issues, and vocation/purpose issues, but in a much more intense, aggressive, combative, pluralistic context.
• Discipleship and teaching students to grow on their own.
• Retention after graduation.
• Engaging parents.
• Cultural relevance. The Church is often reluctant to change sufficiently to genuinely include the young people.
• Defining Success.
• Recruiting and training adult volunteers to be effective.
• Presenting God as the right and better choice over pop culture.
• A lack of understanding of youth culture and no desire to learn it.
• We’re spending so much time trying to keep the ones we have that we are not reaching the lost.
• The church leadership believes there are only a couple of kids caught up in major issues and the rest of the kids are great, god fearing and perfect.
• Employed Christian youth workers are only deployed where there are churches with significant financial resources, meaning deployment is based on money not need.
• The “dumbing down” of programs because of the myth that junior high students cannot go “deep.”
• Connections between people and real community.
• We should be focusing more on is inner-city and “fringe” type of neighborhoods and young people.
• The issue of personal holiness, from youth ministers to parents to students. Our calling should be to BE children of God and pant after Him so that teens can see HIS power in our lives.
• Apathy of the “cradle-Christian” student.
• Not enough long term funding or funding in general.
• The church allows the youth to be isolated, and sometimes they want the youth isolated, which is anything but unifying for the church.
• Viewing youth ministry as a stepping-stone to becoming a Sr. Pastor, as if it’s important to practice ministry on “little people” before being qualified to work with “real people.”

What do you see as some of the main issues youth ministry is responding to effectively?

• Loving teens and connecting with them in their world.
• The call to missions.
• Youth ministry is attempting to address the same issues that the adult church may be after, but the amazing thing is that there is more of a willingness to experiment.
• Provides a safe place for hurting students. We are responding to the deep-seated hurts of teenagers in more effective ways than ever.
• Giving students time and space to be in community with each other.
• A desire to do ministry outside of the church and where kids are.
• Youth ministry allows young people to encounter adults (and young people) who seek to live a 24/7 faith and model a life that’s Christ centered and counter cultural.

In what ways does youth ministry need to change?

• We need to make sure we’re taking our young people deeper into their faith. But not just in Bible studies, but in their experience of mission, church, worship and so on.
• Students need to be IN ministry and not just the recipient of it. If students don’t lead they’ll leave. We need to believe in students and their ability to minister effectively to their peers.
• Relational-driven is more work and less to show…at first.
• Do your deal, follow Jesus, create this environment in the student ministry IF YOU CAN. If you can’t – shut up and leave and find a place where you can if it’s that important to you.
• Less reliance on programs.
• Less “next big thing” thinking.
• Less trendy, fad, youth workers.
• Longevity. Finding a way to keep youth pastors and leader in their positions for the long haul.
• Youth ministers need to adopt more of a “Family Ministry” rather than a “Youth Ministry.” Parents need to be central to the process of our teenagers’ spiritual formation and not disengaged bystanders.
• Emotional health.
• We need to have a plan for when the kids arrive in 6th grade they graduate high school knowing the fundamentals of scripture while at the same time encountering God rather than just being taught facts about Him.
• Plug students into the greater body of Christ.
• Church leaders need to understand what youth pastors are facing and stand with them in a major way.
• Giving opportunity to live faith not just hear about it.
• There is a pretty big void when it comes to Junior High Ministry Curriculum.
• Starting where young people are instead of where we want them to be.
• Student ministry needs to change first in the heart of Lead and Senior pastors across America.

[Read previous authors and posts in this series, "Issues in youth ministry."]

This lady tells a pretty moving story about why she became an Atheist. Throughout the account of her life I see bad theology coupled with un-addressed and unanswered pain. I learned a couple things:

• Build a relationship before blindly forcing theology on someone. Learn about what’s going on in their life and intentionally connect Truth to it after earning their respect.
• Actions really do speak louder than words. How we live our life communicates a lot about our theology.
• Avoid trite “Christian-ese.” Maybe it’s a boost for our ego to use big “meaningful” words, but it’s not worth alienating people.
• Listen more than talk.
• Be willing to ask the hard questions with people searching for answers. Questioning is a search for discovery, not an offensive threat.
• Perhaps the most important question someone can ask is, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” Don’t blow it off or give unsatisfactory Sunday school answers.

Having answers and knowing theology are so vitally important in youth and children’s ministry today, but it can have a negative affect if approached inconsiderately of the audience that hears it. Teaching theology is necessary, but maybe publicly living our theology for all to see is even more necessary today. Maybe theology should be caught more than it is taught.

Marko had a good blog post today about this very subject. He says (and I agree) that it’s important for teens to question their faith and ask the hard questions. My question is why the church at large generally frowns upon those who ask tough questions and challenge the status quo. If our faith isn’t strong enough to hold up against these questions then maybe it really isn’t worth believing in the first place.

I consider myself to be someone with many questions who is also somewhat intimidated by the Christian public. I think that’s partly why I’m attracted to the blogging community, because here I find others who are also asking questions and are willing to give input into each other’s thoughts.

Mr. Luce responded: “If the 4 percent is true, or even the 5 percent, it’s an indictment of youth ministry. So certainly they’re going to want different data.”

Why do youth ministries take so much blame for this statistic? C’mon, [tag]Run Luce[/tag]! Yes, some youth ministries can stand to be re-evaluated and changed, but it can’t be entirely our fault. There is a lot more to this than just ineffective youth groups.

I think it involves the following:

1. If students aren’t returning to [tag]church[/tag], then maybe the church needs to rethink what they’re doing and how they “do church.” What is it about the church that students don’t want to be a part of?

2. Students need to see genuine godliness lived out by parents at home and in the lives of their youth workers. The truth is, many parents in our churches wouldn’t even meet the standard of spiritual maturity that I require for volunteers who are in this role model position.

3. Students need to have a solid understanding of bibliology and why then can trust [tag]scripture[/tag]. The Bible needs to be a reliable source as the foundation of everything they do and how they live their lives, not just a book of stories. Churches are filled with biblically illiterate people and it shows.

[tags]parenting[/tags]

Shifting from a youth ministry to a group of youth missionaries, by Dan Kimball
Despite the fact that Dan was functioning on only a couple hours of sleep from the night before, he presented this seminar very well. He addressed a big question many of us have thought before, “Why do teenagers get so passionate and excited about serving God and being evangelistic on Mexico mission trips (and other trips like that), but when they are back home fall into more of a routine and neutral passion about evangelism?”

His answer was basically this: We need to intentionally view our town as a mission field and model a lifestyle that actively seeks to reach others for Christ.

In Matthew 4:17-20 Jesus calls the disciples to follow Him and be fishers of people. Their primary role is the worship God, their secondary roll is to reach people. Acts 1:8 carries this same message. When we start reading the Bible through a missional lens, the whole book is missional, too.

Evangelism in Christian sub-culture becomes events and concerts. My personal observation is that Christians attend Christian outreach events more than non-Christians. What’s supposed to be an event for reaching the lost becomes entertainment for those already saved. Even though outreach events may reach some, I’ve seen relational outreach be much more effective. The success rate of relational evangelism seems to be so much higher than that of big events that I sometimes wonder why we still bother with them. Relational evangelism is just so much easier, too!

Unfortunately, the longer we’re Christians the more we stop socializing and hanging out with non-Christian friends, so by the time we reach a ripe old age and have grown to be mature in our faith, the only people who see it are other believers.

Dan said he thinks the reason teens drop out of church after high school is because they’re bored with the “bunny slope” (short-term missions) and they don’t know that the black diamond slope even exists (our life is on a mission). If they lived like they’re on a mission in a mission field their prayer lives would increase, their spirituality would be strengthened and their knowledge of scripture would abound. Our kids have skis but they need to put them on an go down the hill!

Some ideas and questions in creating guilt-free and non-awkward missionaries
1. Do an experiment of presenting your local town as a mission field. Give demographic stats, the perks, the struggles, what previous missionaries have tried there and what it will cost them (free!), but present it initially as if it were a village somewhere.

2. Personally re-think our role. Are we “youth group leaders” or “leaders of youth missionaries?” Do we see ourselves as youth leaders or just hang out with church kids? We need to intentionally go to the unsaved community and use our teens to reach them.

3. Write missionary letters or missionary journals as an exercise. Send newsletters and mission updates and prayer support letters just like we would for any short-term missions trip.

4. Teach and train youth to better understand how to think about critical key issues in our culture, such as the trustworthiness of scripture and other apologetics.

BOTTOM LINE FOR ME: Relational ministry is the most effective form of evangelism, which obviously indicates it must be an ongoing visible lifestyle, not a calendar event.

General Session #1: Buster Soaries
Normal faith is not what we need — it’s inadequate. We need to pray for astonishing faith if we want to see what God has in store for us.

In Matthew 8:5-10 the Centurion had faith that God could heal his servant from a distance. Whenever God is revealed, something happens!

How did the Centurion know Jesus could heal from a distance It had never been done before. Jesus touched other sick people or was in the presence in some way. The Centurion’s faith was so astonishing. He believed God could do what He’s never done before. God specializes in things that have never happened before, not reruns.

BOTTOM LINE FOR ME: Faith involves risk. When I ask the Lord to interact with my life I then need to trust Him with it. God wants to do things through me that He’s never done before and He needs me to take my hands off!

The importance of theology in youth ministry (or any ministry in a church), by Dan Kimball
Dan’s main roll in this seminar was to raise a lot of questions about why we do what we do in church. Most of it is not based on scripture but rather has just passed down through tradition. Whether we like it or not, the way we do church communicates a lot about our theology and values. A lot of his questions and conclusions are some of the exact same ones I’ve been wrestling with personally and blogging about the past several months. Some people may read my skepticism about the current model for this thing we call church and be immediately label me a heretic, so it was refreshing for me to sit in Dan’s seminar and hear all my same questions being asked by someone who’s more well-known and respected than me.

The modern church has fallen into a subtle trap that has caused some people to re-think what church is supposed to look like. Dan said it goes through several phases.

Phase 1: First we re-think our methodology. How are ministry methods supposed to change as culture changed? Rethinking methods usually begins with changing the worship gathering, as I kinda thought through in a blog post earlier this week. Why do we do what we do?

Phase 2: We then re-think the youth ministry, realizing that it is not in isolation and culture and theology is beyond an age group. Discipleship is not something limited to just certain age groups.

Phase 3: Next we rethink our ecclesiology. What is church? (It’s not a building or a place. It’s not some place we go. WE are the church, I am a part of it.) Our theology about church is indicated in many ways, including how we set up a room. Pews separate the speaker from the audience, raising him to some “more important” status of the church. Pews also make the church service a performance with spectators. It doesn’t teach community as we stare at that backs of people’s heads. Our ecclesiology is also indicated by what we teach about worship. We don’t go to church to worship (as I also blogged about two weeks ago), as if what takes place at church is something different than what should take place at home. We also equate worship with singing and thereby ignore many other forms of worship in services.

This leads to start rethinking spiritual formation, evangelism, community, preaching, church “membership,” and the roll of a “pastor.” What is a pastor? What’s a youth pastor? In scripture “pastor” is a spiritual gift, but we’ve turned it into a title.

Phase 4: No we start rethinking our theology (without losing truth). This means changes are more than just contemporary music and adding some candles. More questions are bound to come up and thus we MUST know what we believe and why. Students need to know the Bible, its origin, inspiration, how to handle difficult passages and how to understand it holistically. They also need a theology of human sexuality, marriage, homosexuality and divorce. Furthermore, they need to understand the church, the roll of women, what “church” is, the roll of the Holy Spirit and more.

Phase 5: We start being the church rather than going to church.

BOTTOM LINE FOR ME: Dan Kimball: “Getting the latest youth ministry fad materials lasts for only minutes, but theology will last students their lifetime.” I also walked away feeling more confident about my critical questions concerning church and that I need to continue exploring scripture’s intent and how that plays out for us today.

General Session #2: Mike Pilavachi
Jesus didn’t try to entertain anyone into the kingdom. He just had them hang out with Him through daily life and He taught them along the way. He had the disciples feed the 5,000 from 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes. Jesus likes to perform miracles through His disciples. The disciples finally cast out a demon and they were excited. Jesus said, “Rejoice not that demons flee, but that your names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” Jesus taught them as they went.

BOTTOM LINE FOR ME: It confirms the importance for relational ministry and teaching through real-life situations.

[tags]Evangelism, Dan Kimball, Youth Specialties, National Youth Workers Convention, NYWC, Outreach, Mike Pilavachi, Buster Soaries, church, missions[/tags]

It’s easy to gloss over sin and disregard a lot of things that “aren’t a big deal,” but before God any sin is a HUGE deal. If even “our righteous acts are like filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6), just think of how disgusting our sin is! All the negative thoughts that rush through our minds, the critical attitudes, and self-righteous pride — no one else may know about these things, but to God it’s repulsive. Thankfully, as Peretti’s book makes clear, the only way to be clean before God is by the sacrifice of Christ. And the only way to please Him is by allowing Him to use us in order to glorify Himself. No human effort will ever come close.

After hearing this book, I don’t think my view of sin, my heart, or my Savior will ever be the same. I pray my view of sin becomes as nauseating to me as it is to God and that my heart will always be a reflection of His purity.

And by the way, I finally got some wedding pictures posted. Our photographer put all the best pictures together in a wedding album for us, but was kind enough to give us some of the “leftover” pictures on CD at no extra cost. Enjoy!

]]> http://timschmoyer.com/2006/08/11/convicted-by-perettis-house/feed/ 1 http://timschmoyer.com/2006/06/26/church-worship-and-icons/ http://timschmoyer.com/2006/06/26/church-worship-and-icons/#comments Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:17:01 +0000 Tim Schmoyer http://208.101.63.97/?p=182 A friend of mine posted today some thoughts I’ve also shared and discussed with other ministry friends concerning church worship and icons. I haven’t blogged about it, though, until now.

Here’s what she said:

…why do we put so much focus on the people playing the instruments and singing up front[?] Why don’t we put them in the back, or something? People seem to focus on the people up there, instead of God. I know that (well, girls at least) talk about what the people are wearing, and the motions that they did, etc. That’s not focusing on God. Why don’t we just put them in the back, or how can we as humans trying to worship train our minds to focus on God and not those things happening around us?

This really happens all the time, doesn’t it? During the singing part of worship on Sunday mornings, it’s easy to focus on so many other things. “Man, the projector is really dim. We need to turn more lights off in here. And why don’t they make the lyrics a larger font?” or “Did those sunglasses really stay on his head through the whole service or did he just put them back on for the closing song?” I’m not sure it’s possible or even our job to remove all distractions from the worship place since worship ultimately takes place in the heart and life of the individual, but maybe there’s a couple easy steps we could take to make the environment more conducive for it.

And then there’s the use of icons in worship, which has been popular for centuries. In protestant churches we tend to lean toward the icon of the cross, but why should this is our main focus? I mean, yeah, Jesus suffered and died on a cross because of our sin and it’s definitely an important event to remember, but maybe His resurrection is equally as important. If there was only a cross and a dead Jesus then Christianity wouldn’t exist anyway. His resurrection proves that He defeated both physical and spiritual death (the penalty for our sin). Otherwise, death would’ve won. Although using the cross to remember his crucifixion is legitimate and important, I wish we had more icons of empty tombs around to remind us to celebrate His resurrection. Lilly’s once a year doesn’t seem to cut it.

Their discovery is that there is usually a lot of extra “stuff” thrown into the plan of salvation that does not pertain directly to the gospel, as well as many ambiguous phrases to explain “key” aspects. For example, “Just accept Jesus into your heart and you will be saved.” What does it mean to accept Jesus into your heart? I’ve heard it all my life and, although it’s apparently figurative, I’m still not sure what that means. Or how about, “You must make Jesus the Lord and Savior of your life.” That sounds like more of a dedication/discipleship statement than a salvation statement.

Back in Bible College I had Dr. Charles C. Ryrie for Soteriology and he challenged us with a story that went something like this:

You’re walking along on the sidewalk when suddenly there is a massive car accident and a man is thrown out of his car, lying on the street pavement dying. Someone rushes over to help him, sees that he only has 30 seconds left to live, looks up and recognizes you as a Christian. They beckon you over and say, “This person only has 30 seconds left to live. Quick, share the gospel with them!” What do you say?

This definitely got me thinking back in college and is provoking many thoughts in my interns, too. What needs to be communicated to the dying man in that 30 seconds and what can be left out? What’s essential for him to know and believe for salvation and what’s not?

Unless there’s a lot of extra “stuff” thrown in, thirty seconds is more than enough time to fully explain the gospel in clear terms that any unchurched person can understand. The gospel is a lot simpler than most Christians make it out to be.

Daniel 6:4
Then the other administrators and princes began searching for some fault in the way Daniel was handling his affairs, but they couldn’t find anything to criticize. He was faithful and honest and always responsible.” (NLT)

Daniel stands out to me as an example of what Godly manhood is all about. Job has been this figure to me for some time now. The book of Job starts out by saying,

Job 1:1
“Job was a man who lived in Uz. He was honest inside and out, a man of his word, who was totally devoted to God and hated evil with a passion.” (The Message)

What an example for us men to follow! But lately my thoughts have shifted from the example of Job to the life of Daniel. Here’s a man who was appointed as one of the highest officials in the entire kingdom and naturally draws the envy of those below him. Those who were jealous try to plot his demise, but, after a thorough and critical evaluation, they could not find a single fault in his character or work habits. The only way to catch him in something foul was to intentionally pervert a commitment in his life to be something offensive to the kingdom. What did these envious men find in Daniel’s life to be the strongest commitment in which to trap him? His commitment to prayer.

I ask myself the obvious application: if someone were to closely watch my every moment, both public and private, would anything be found that’s less than honorable? If my work was closely analyzed, my motives evaluated, and my actions scrutinized, would the result be anything less than an obvious commitment to holiness and righteousness? To answer in all honesty, I don’t know the answer to that question. Maybe that alone should indicate something to me. If someone needed something in which to trap me, would my commitment to prayer be the best point of attack? Probably not.

My fear is that my response has the potential to become very much works-based in motivation to be a “better person” on the outside rather than being based on my heart’s response to Christ’s love and mercy. This conviction has lain heavy on my heart for several weeks now and so far I’ve seen my depraved nature react both ways. Hopefully, though, I’ll increasingly see myself grow in a worshipful response to the holy lifestyle to which my Lord calls me: to live a life that is above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2), a workman approved who has no reason to be ashamed (2 Timothy 2:15).

As far as I understand scripture, when it describes the roles of pastors and the church, there are some very specific instructions for what’s expected. These are absolutes that are unquestionable. However, the model of the early church I do not think is a prescription that mandates we imitate the exact same thing today — rather, it’s a description of what they did in their day that encourages us to be creative in meeting the needs of our day. Paul was a church planter and moved to a new church every three years or so. Does that mean that pastors today must not stay in one place longer than three years? No. I am a youth pastor and am clearly created to serve teenagers. Does that mean everyone must serve teenagers the way I do? No. The question really comes down to whether one believes the New Testament examples are prescriptions for ministry today or only descriptions of what they did that give principles for us today. My position is the latter. Two-thousand years have passed since the early church and the game is still the same, but the playing field is completely different.

That’s my deal and I’m not gonna bother arguing it any more. It really doesn’t make a difference to me if you call me “pastor” or “director” or “coordinator” or whatever fits your theological position. In my mind, function is much more important than title. Just let me follow the Lord’s calling on my life and please don’t discourage others who are doing the same.

If you need wisdom–if you want to know what God wants you to do–ask him, and he will gladly tell you. He will not resent your asking. But when you ask him, be sure that you really expect him to answer, for a doubtful mind is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. People like that should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. They can’t make up their minds. They waver back and forth in everything they do….

God blesses the people who patiently endure testing. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him….

Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above, who created all heaven’s lights. Unlike them, he never changes or casts shifting shadows. In his goodness he chose to make us his own children by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his choice possession.